2009 HEFA Float Fly?

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lawndart
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2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by lawndart » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:18 pm

Now that we're all registered-like, does that mean we can't have a float fly some time? Or are we married to Shannon Park field and can't have sanctioned events elsewhere? I take it there are at least a few other members with water-capable planes that would be interested.

Dave
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Enforcer
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Re: 2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by Enforcer » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:07 pm

OOHH, that reminds me... I need to get some floats for my Super Cub! Thanks Dave! :D
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retiredVTT
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Re: 2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by retiredVTT » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:58 am

Oh Yes, float flies are possible, just as indoor flying in the winter will still be a go. MAAC registration required as usual if we are doing it as members of HEFA.

Bill
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AndrewS
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Re: 2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by AndrewS » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:21 am

I agree with Bill. We can have them but I think we may have to apply for sanction or register the location as a field. I will check on it.

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Ghost Flyer
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Re: 2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by Ghost Flyer » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:55 am

I would love to try my skills out on the water. As for it being sanctioned by MAAC, it took a lot of time to get where we are with the SP agreement. I'm assuming that getting permission and an agreement from whoever "own's" the water or shoreline will take some time, therefore, I'd like to suggest that informal float fly events be held while the whole MAAC thing is considered for this type of event.

Just my 2¢ worth.

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GWS Floats

Unread post by Ghost Flyer » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:45 am

FYI

I just picked up some GWS floats for $20 (GW/FLOAT 535)at Maritime Hobby. John had ordered 6 sets in, but now there are only 2 sets left. Better grab 'em if you want 'em, quick! :idea:

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saboo
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Re: 2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by saboo » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:33 pm

Probably not much has changed from last year regarding float flys. A float fly organized by HEFA at an unregistered field or lake will have the same MAAC insurance coverage as those flying at Leon's or any other unapproved field. It does not exist. It is the same coverage that MAAC members would have had at any flying, at say Lewis Lake last summer, or even Leon's this week, with the SP field in use by other groups.. So flying at Lewis Lake this summer should probably take place as normal. The coverage you have this year is the same as last year.. Similarly if flying at Leon's you choose to put up the MAAC approved signs, it does not grant you any insurance coverage as other requirements are not met.

So just go and have fun. That is what this hobby is about.

The existence of HEFA and a MAAC approved flying site, probably does not limit or prohibit you from flying at an unapproved field or venue such as a lake or indoor location. ( HEFA members have been flying at Leon's some evenings this week for example. ) As long as it is clearly understood that no MAAC insurance coverage is in force. But this is just as it has been for many flyers for these past 7-10 years or so.

Other clubs have flyins at lakes in front of people's cottages, and I have never seen that they are MAAC sanctioned and thus covered by MAAC insurance. But attendance has been great and the flying exciting and there has been great photo coverage in the respective clubs web site.

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retiredVTT
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Re: 2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by retiredVTT » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:27 pm

saboo wrote:Probably not much has changed from last year regarding float flys. A float fly organized by HEFA at an unregistered field or lake will have the same MAAC insurance coverage as those flying at Leon's or any other unapproved field. It does not exist. It is the same coverage that MAAC members would have had at any flying, at say Lewis Lake last summer, or even Leon's this week, with the SP field in use by other groups.. So flying at Lewis Lake this summer should probably take place as normal. The coverage you have this year is the same as last year.. Similarly if flying at Leon's you choose to put up the MAAC approved signs, it does not grant you any insurance coverage as other requirements are not met.

So just go and have fun. That is what this hobby is about.

The existence of HEFA and a MAAC approved flying site, probably does not limit or prohibit you from flying at an unapproved field or venue such as a lake or indoor location. ( HEFA members have been flying at Leon's some evenings this week for example. ) As long as it is clearly understood that no MAAC insurance coverage is in force. But this is just as it has been for many flyers for these past 7-10 years or so.

Other clubs have flyins at lakes in front of people's cottages, and I have never seen that they are MAAC sanctioned and thus covered by MAAC insurance. But attendance has been great and the flying exciting and there has been great photo coverage in the respective clubs web site.

Saboo
Thank you for that Jim..aka Cheeky..some of what you say is accurate. The "fields" that the HEFA members use, (whether they be grass, water, astro turf, or vinyl tile), will require registering with MAAC if the insurance coverage is to be expected; that is my interpretation of the HEFA/MAAC relationship. For those that have the recent issue of Model Aviation Canada (MAAC Mag) June '09 issue ..page 51 sums it all up quite clearly.

I have requested info from MAAC officials concerning float flying. Finding a suitable site might be more difficult due to the likely presence of boaters and swimmers.
So in a number of situations you will probably hear of a small group of flyers (2,3,4) flying at a venue in the off swimming times...and in so doing, most likely, are on their own.
However, when the event is Club organized and MAAC sanctioned, insurance is in force.
A number of clubs will hold one and sometimes two float flys per year, and have them MAAC santioned and require flyers to hold valid MAAC membership cards.

An indoor venue for winter flying will be registered with MAAC so that our members can enjoy that facet of the hobby this year.

Bill
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Re: 2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by saboo » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:30 am

Gee Bill if some of what I say is accurate, could you clarify which parts are not accurate.

I clearly stated that if the field is not approved by MAAC, not just registered, and if the other conditions are not met, there is no insurance in force. That is exactly what it appears you said. That is what seems to have been MAAC policy for several years but has been very clearly re-stated and emphasized by MAAC and the insurance company this year.

So in the past pick-up or casual get togethers at non-MAAC approved flying sites or non-sanctioned events have generally NOT been covered by MAAC insurance. So a group flying at Lewis Lake today will have the same coverage as they had in the past, and that is NO COVERAGE.

That is all I was pointing out. So please clarify where you feel I was inaccurate

It is no different from a group flying at the rugby field portion of SP. ( That part of the field with the running track around it over by the steam plant. ) That may not be part of the approved field layout and likely may not be covered by MAAC insurance. You can bet your bottom dollar that the Insurer of MAAC and MAAC members will be very specific in excluding all claims, if there is any chance that flying took place outside of the very narrowly proscribed location.

So to get back to a float fly. If HEFA organizes a float fly at a non-approved location there is probably no coverage. If a group, not organized by HEFA, gets together at a lake to fly, there is no coverage. So if you want to fly off water like last year, just find a wet spot and fly. Most people were not concerned about MAAC insurance last year at Lewis Lake. In fact I suspect that at the time some of the flyers did not even have MAAC memberships, so nothing has changed except that HEFA exists. HEFA's existence does not limit where a member can fly or when. MAAC membership does not limit where or when you can fly. However, MAAC and the insurance company rules determine when insurance is in force.

If you review the claims report in the AGM minutes in the Aviation Canada magazine, I recall the largest claim was where a member flew into a restored vintage aircraft doing about $20,000 damage. All of the other reported claims are really quite modest. That is with 1000s of flyers in all kinds of flying situations and in many cases flying much larger and heavier planes. And that is with less clarity in the past of where and what is covered. I don't know what the premium is that MAAC pays for the insurance, but I bet it is many times the actual claims in a given year. My point is the claims and damage country wide with much more risky behavior is quite modest. The claims amounts will likely go down as the rules are more rigidly enforced, with more exclusions. So the effective coverage by MAAC insurance may become less and less. Or in other words the probability exists that if an accident were to occur any minor omission in approval of a field or sanctioning of an event would mean no insurance was in force. But we still want to fly. So as I said in the previous post, you want to have afloat fly? Just go and do it.
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Re: 2009 HEFA Float Fly?

Unread post by Ghost Flyer » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:35 am

Okay folks, from my perspective, both Jim and Bill are right. It seems quite simple and, really, it's not worth getting all touchy about. If the flying site is registered with MAAC and all the rules will be adhered to, then HEFA can hold a MAAC sanctioned event. If the site isn't registered, then HEFA can't have a MAAC sanctioned event there, until it is registered. However, if HEFA members want to fly at a non-MAAC event, then that is fine too. It just simply means they aren't flying with MAAC insurance protection. And really, nobody here is going to limit themselves to fly only at MAAC events. I, for one, wouldn't stop myself from flying out at Vic's lake in the winter, or slope soaring in Lawrencetown, or even a small park-flyer or helicopter in an empty school yard, just because these areas are not registered with MAAC. I really don't think anyone would stop themselves.

I think the main reason for flying under the MAAC coverage is two things. 1. So that we can ensure the property owners, of the flying site, that we have their "back" if any personal or property damage should occur. This in turn, as with the SP site, allows the site owner to give our club a slotted time to fly with their approval. 2. With the growing number of RC pilots wanting to gather and fly at a common place, where most of us fly all the time, it's good to have some coverage and rules in place. Can you imagine if we had 15-25 planes in the air all the time? This might have happened at SP, if we didn't form a club because our club is up to at least 25 members. The other very important thing is, HEFA being registered with MAAC makes our club an officially recognized outfit, which is important to some property owners. It also gives us some weight (rights?) when dealing with government officials.

HEFA is a terrific idea. It has a great mandate and I'm very proud to be a member, and I'm happy help out where ever I can.

In any case with MAAC, personally speaking, I plan to make use of MAAC when I can, and for those times when I can't, I'll still be flying using my common sense, as I'm sure, everyone else will too.

Cheers,
Andrew
Last edited by Ghost Flyer on Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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