New Forum for Combat

Discussion about electric combat competition and combat model design and construction.

New Forum for Combat

New postby RocketManRC on Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:42 am

This is a new Forum at Vic's request.
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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby CF Av8or on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:11 am

Gentlemen,

I have had this topic created for the purpose of all discussion related to RC Combat competition and combat aircraft design and construction.

My wish is to expand on the participation in this “ultimate in fun” facet of RC flying such that we can develop a critical mass of participants in order to run a series of contest through the year.

Numbers of participants is critical to the successful running of an event for several reasons. Each round of combat needs to have a minimum of 5 aircraft/pilots. In addition, a true competition requires an equal number of judges, plus an over-all director, to run a round. So, to run an event requires a minimum of 11 participants.

My current interest is in Scale RC Combat. As such, this past spring, I ran a build-seminar to allow the 9 participants to construct one of a series of 1/12th scale WWII fighter/aircraft which I designed for the purposes of future competition. These aircraft are 1/12th semi-scale representations of WWII aircraft constructed of foam-board and coroplast which have proven to be both durable and effective combat flyers. At our HEFA Games Day in July, we flew the inaugural Scale RC Combat event in the Maritimes. Unfortunately, we did not have everyone from the build-seminar participate, and it had to be run as a demonstration more so than a judged competion, it was nevertheless a very fun and successful event.

In the interests of expanding the participation in future events, and to involve those who may not have had the opportunity to join in our build-seminar or lack the time or confidence to build their own models, I want to include all flyers with ARFs that meet the required criteria to join in future events.

1/12th Scale RC Combat Criteria:

- combat aircraft must be fighter or attack aircraft which were flown in combat during World War II (1939 to 1945).

- models must be 1/12th scale – i..e. scaled to a size of 1 inch equals 1 foot. For example, an aircraft with a full-sized wingspan of 37 feet will result in a 1/12th scale model with a wingspan of 37 inches.

Standby for more to follow......
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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby rhyneheimer on Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:00 pm

thanks vic, sounds good so far

re the possible inconsistent motor output, i'll also let guys know that i've built a rudimentary thrust meter, for which i'm still perfecting some final mounting details, but if anyone is interested then we can check your static thrust and get a thrust to weight ratio. for the last combat demo at Shearwater, it appears that i had about 15.4 oz thrust on my 32 oz mustang with the stock NTM35-30 motor and 8x6 prop - so about 48% thrust to weight ratio

here's a crappy pic in case you get a hankering to build your own, it's a pretty simple design, or you can try your plane on mine sometime, it mounts on my deck railing - the horizontal swinging beam hangs freely from 2 straight hinged rods, and the deflection of one of the hanging rods is measured under full power.

if you want to try something similar, then:
Weight of (plane + clamps + beam + (.5 x rod weight)) x (TAN(deflection angle)) = Thrust
i got 15' deflection, so W x tan 15 = (1633g x .268) = 437.6g = 15.4 oz static thrust
omg i used trigonometry in real life :|

IMG_0894 - half.jpg
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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby RocketManRC on Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:39 pm

Is there anything from Horizon that is BNF that will qualify? I know that AndrewS analysed one of them and concluded that the wingspan was a bit to big. Perhaps one of the others?
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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby AndrewS on Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:42 pm

Just did a quick check on the ParkZone fighters (BNF) based on wingspan.
Only the F4F Wildcat is for sure.
The P47 is 42" and 1/12 would be 41".

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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby CF Av8or on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:02 pm

Combat Model Criteria Continued:

As previously noted, the model must be a 1/12th scale replica of a World War II pursuit, fighter, or attack aircraft produced or in service between 1939 and 1945. For the purpose of this contest, an aircraft shall be considered a pursuit, fighter, or attack aircraft if its missions routinely involved, or its designer intended any of the following:

a) interception of enemy aircraft;
b) high-speed ground or sea attack;
c) dogfighting;
d) long and short-range escort.

The aircraft must have been originally designed to have had onboard guns installed. Aircraft that had guns mounted for defensive purposes only shall not qualify as pursuit, fighter, or attack aircraft.

There will be an allowable deviation from 1/12th scale of 3%. For the Mustang example, where the 1/12th scale wingspan is 37 inches, it will be permissible to have a model with a wingspan of anywhere between 35.9" and 38.1" This deviation from scale applies not just to wingspan, but to all dimensions of the aircraft. For example, it will not be allowed to have the wingspan 3% longer and the fuselage length 3% shorter than scale. The deviations must all be in the same direction. So, that being said, chopping some length off the wingtips of a model to make the wingspan fall within the 3% criteria won't make a model qualify if the other dimensions are not also scaled equally.

Aircraft must resemble their full-scale counterparts. Fuselages must be scale in profile and both profile or full 3-D fuselages are permissible. Our HEFA build-seminar models, for example, are designed as profile-scale models with 2-dimensional fuselages.

The Contest Director shall determine accuracy-of-scale by simple visual inspection and by measurement of major dimensions and may, at his discretion, request from the pilot a three-view drawing or photo, to help in determining scale fidelity. The burden of proof of scale fidelity shall reside solely with the pilot of the aircraft.

Landing gear is allowed but is not required. Landing gear must retract if original aircraft had retractable undercarriage. Protrusions such as guns, antennae or pitot tubes on the leading edges of the wing, scale or non-scale, shall not be allowed. Canopies, either structured or painted on, are required.

Aircraft are to be finished in prototypical or unit/squadron colors for that type of aircraft of the period. Unusual color schemes are allowed when supported with simple photograph or drawing documentation supplied by the pilot of the aircraft. Color schemes must be based on combat units. Colors based on such non-combat activity as target towing, prototype testing, R&D, war weary and civilian uses are not allowed.

Tail areas may be enlarged from exact scale as required to impart good flying characteristics to the model. Full scale horizontal and vertical tails can often not be scaled down very satisfactorily, particularly with small models like our 1/12th scale aircraft. For example, the Messerschmitt Bf109 has a very small horizontal stab which sometimes results in a model which does not fly well when scaled down too much.

Artificial Devices/Substances. There will be no structures or devices allowed on the model that could aid in the cutting of an opponent’s streamer. Wingtip skid plates are allowed, but must not extend forward of the leading edge of the wingtip.


Model Power Systems. The choice of motor is entirely up to the individual. The only restriction is in the size of the battery – this is limited to a 3-cell, 1500 mAh lipo. Combat round duration is 3 and ½ minutes, plus 30 seconds for initial launch and climb to combat altitude. If a competitor tries to gain an advantage by installing a huge, powerful motor, they will never be able to complete a full round due to running out of battery power before “Stop Combat” is called. Thus, they will end up suffering the associated penalties which will likely out-weigh any performance advantages they may gain.

The rules for the actual running and scoring of a contest round will be posted here at this forum topic shortly.

All of the above aircraft design rules, as well as the contest scoring rules, are designed to make this class of combat not only realistic, but fun and fair for all competitors.
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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby Metalhead on Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:45 am

So Vic,

Are any of the parkzone planes eligible?

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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby CF Av8or on Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:42 am

I haven't got a clue, Brian. Wouldn't know one if I saw one - I'm not an ARF guy.

Easy enough to figure it out, though. Find the wingspan of the actual aircraft in feet, then compare that to the wingspan of the model in inches. If the numbers are within 3% of each other, it qualifies.

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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby RocketManRC on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:48 am

Here is the Radio Control Combat Association (RCCA) website:

http://rccombat.net

I'm thinking that none of the Parkzone airplanes qualify for the scale class or it would be mentioned there. There are however references to a couple of interesting places that sell kits.

Note that there are 3 classes of RC Combat including one that is called "Open" where as far as I can tell, almost any airplane qualifies! The contest rules appear to be the same.
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Re: New Forum for Combat

New postby AndrewS on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:01 pm

Of the Parkzone fighters only the Wildcat and Thunderbolt qualify as 1/12 scale +-3%.
Check out
http://www.jkaerotech.com/custom.em?pid=851167

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