MAAC Safety Code.

Model Aeronautics Association of Canada
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Enforcer
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Re: MAAC Safety Code.

Unread post by Enforcer » Mon May 04, 2009 7:17 pm

:lol: OK, I understand now... Frank! ;) :lol:

Oh, and I ordered a "proper" buddy cord!!!

Murray
Last edited by Enforcer on Mon May 04, 2009 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Murray Wheten

“My philosophy, like color television, is all there in black and white”
Monty Python

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KrasherJack
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Re: MAAC Safety Code.

Unread post by KrasherJack » Mon May 04, 2009 7:19 pm

Hey Murray,
Astroflyer, also goes by the name as "Senior Al" Eastman who is probably the most aptly named "Astro"Flyer around....Al, are you going to join us...could use another senior Heli-pilot here at Shannon.
Zoom..Zoom

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Re: MAAC Safety Code.

Unread post by Enforcer » Mon May 04, 2009 7:28 pm

Hi KrasherJack!

I'm afraid I'm going to have to insist that everyone wear name tags at the field from now on... displaying both forum handles and actual names! :? :D

Murray
Murray Wheten

“My philosophy, like color television, is all there in black and white”
Monty Python

falcondart
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Re: MAAC Safety Code.

Unread post by falcondart » Mon May 04, 2009 7:53 pm

Hello Murray:
We are very new to all the things we have to have at the field ; It is a learning curve . I do not want us to spend $ 68.00 per month for a place to store the signs and frequency board . My home is about 10 minutes from the field and I"m going to leave a full set of signs & frequency board under my deck beside the clothes line . Any member flying at Shannon can come pick them up . Remember MAAC rules , and that is what we are working towards , says we have to have these in place or we are not covered .I have printed a second set of all signs , Andrew S has them in his truck for now but will give them to Rick MacDonald when he arrives home. He is there more than even Tom Foote . So we should be covered .If we need more signs I will make them , but they do cost me time and money , so I'm not making more than we need . Al Coolen mentioned to me that we will receive a kit from MAAC with our MAAC certification , All needed signage and frequency board are supposed to be in the kit , I did not know this . We do not have a set of club rules yet , again everthing takes time , Andrew ,Bill , John and myself want to wait until Rick MacDonald gets home to discuss these and have a meeting with the membership.Wow , how I love to say that ..long time coming . They are going to be in place for a long time so we want to come up with rules that are safety oriented and fair to all members . I know other people will be reading this so it goes for all members , MAAC rules must be followed .

As far as going to the field and flying alone , again this is for all of us . It is not a good idea . Accidents could happen ,even with relatively small electric planes . It would be bad if anything like that happened to a club member , I think we would all feel responsible .

I live up behind the Mic Mac Mall , 38 Overdale Lane .Use goggle earth it's easier than me trying to explain .My Phone # is in the phone book any questions please phone me . Anyone can pick up the signs , Please return at least by noon the next day as someone else may want them .

Good flying and thanks Chris

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AndrewS
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Re: MAAC Safety Code.

Unread post by AndrewS » Mon May 04, 2009 8:17 pm

Hi Murray,

From the MAAC flight training course http://www.maac.ca/docs/2006/doc_flight ... urse_e.pdf
"You may not take your "A" Wings test until your instructor, or the Chief Instructor has signed
below indicating that you have completed the elements of your primary training program and you
are ready for your “A” Level Wings test.. Your must pass your "A" Wings test before you are
allowed to fly at the club field without supervision."

We will most likely have something like this if we do our own "wings" program instead of using the MAAC one.

As Bill indicated, the signage issue has yet to be addressed but we are working on it in order to have the signs available even if, for example, I can't make it to the field. Chris and I both have sets at the moment. It may even end up with several people having sets to ensure someone is around or leaving a set at a nearby member home where the rest could access them. It is not just the warning signs, but the frequency board is also a requirement.

As to flying by yourself after being winged, I don't think we have talked about it as yet. Summer nights and weekends are not usually an issue as there are several others around most of the time.

Keep asking the questions and we will keep trying to answer them.

Hope that's some help.

AndrewS
Andrew Smith,
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MAAC 76250

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Re: MAAC Safety Code.

Unread post by Enforcer » Mon May 04, 2009 8:22 pm

Hi Chris!

Thanks for your reponse as well. Good to know the signs are available.

BTW, If the membership fees cannot be used to cover the cost of the signs, then I would be in favour of pitching in some doe. There's no good reason why you should have to pay for everything... "President" Obama would not be expected to pay. ;)

Murray
Murray Wheten

“My philosophy, like color television, is all there in black and white”
Monty Python

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Re: MAAC Safety Code.

Unread post by Enforcer » Mon May 04, 2009 8:29 pm

Thanks Andrew. That was very helpful.

Did you check your e-mail. I sent you my daughter's MAAC number. Now the club has to train both of us! :lol: Two Whetens in the same club may prove to be one Wheten too many! :D

Murray
Murray Wheten

“My philosophy, like color television, is all there in black and white”
Monty Python

saboo

Re: MAAC Safety Code. and "Never Fly alone"

Unread post by saboo » Mon May 04, 2009 8:58 pm

To give an idea of how ambiguous and vague, not to even mention contradictory, some of the MAAC rules are, I suggest you all read Section 6.1.6 of the MAAC safety code. The last few words are "Always fly with a buddy for safety, never fly alone."

Now as it is buried in the part about Electric flying 'recommendations' one wonders wether it applies to all forms of flying or is it just an 'aside' or a hard and fast rule, or is it only applicable if it is an electric plane. Throughout the MAAC safety code there always seems to be an alternative rule that may apply or may be varied as conditions require.

This seems to contradict AstroFlyers comments about flying alone. But maybe it does not contradict Al if you are not flying electric.

My observation is that whatever rule you can find in the MAAC safety code there is an 'out' or other means built-in to avoid having to follow a specific rule. You just have to search until you find the one that favours what you wish to do.

Unfortunately the safety code is very poorly written. No where should it discuss brands of chargers, charge rates, etc. The rules should set out standards of performance. So instead of saying use such and such a charger, which may or may not even be made at the time of reading, it should say to 'follow the manufacturers guidelines for charging and discharging the battery you are using. It is the responsibility of the user to know and understand the manufacturers recommendations.'

But no MAAC has to categorically state that you cannot charge a certain type of battery faster than whatever. The code is full of suggestions and recommendations. Suggestions and recommendations are not codified rules. They have no place in a safety code.

Because the code has so many clauses that are only suggestions and recommendations, the validity of any of the rules is questionable. Determining which rule applies and which is only a suggestion or recommendation means enforceability is much in doubt.

I suggest that everyone download and print it out. Read it and then cross check assertions that appear to be a rule and then find the place where your type of flying may be regarded as exempt.

I suggest that MAAC and their appropriate zone directors each month post a list of claims on the insurance policy. The claims filed with MAAC should be posted 'as claimed' each month for all to see, wether they are settled, in process or whatever. Then as members you should expect the report of each claim as it is concluded. Was it dropped, went to court, denied etc. As policy owners MAAC members should demand this of their organization. You the members are the policyholders. You have the legal right to know of claims made against a policy you own. Only through this process can members and their clubs determine if the insurance company is serving them well, and / or if the administrators of MAAC are serving the members best interests.

Saboo

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Re: MAAC Safety Code. and "Never Fly alone"

Unread post by astroflyer » Mon May 04, 2009 9:34 pm

saboo wrote:I suggest that MAAC and their appropriate zone directors each month post a list of claims on the insurance policy. The claims filed with MAAC should be posted 'as claimed' each month for all to see, wether they are settled, in process or whatever. Then as members you should expect the report of each claim as it is concluded. Was it dropped, went to court, denied etc. As policy owners MAAC members should demand this of their organization. You the members are the policyholders. You have the legal right to know of claims made against a policy you own. Only through this process can members and their clubs determine if the insurance company is serving them well, and / or if the administrators of MAAC are serving the members best interests.Saboo
jim, after repeated requests by many members there is now an insurance report on the maac website. approval for this posting came from the AGM last month I think.

http://www.maac.ca/docs/2009/insurancec ... rt2008.pdf

I agree maac is not perfect and the wording of documents sometimes is confusing. Except for a few paid office staff, It's a volunteer organization and none of this stuff has been written by professionals as far as I know. no flame intended Jim, but you're a right smart lad and I think you should join up, get involved and help iron out some of these problems.

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Re: MAAC Safety Code.

Unread post by retiredVTT » Tue May 05, 2009 1:25 am

Wow, while John and I were out flying tonight....you guys were slapping down the posts..!

Sorry Murray, that I did not get word to you earlier. About 6pm I left for Shannon to return some gear to John that he left behind Sunday, and when he showed up at 6;45...low and behold he had the signs and freq board..so we flew in the most calm air that I have experienced in a long time, and we just flew and flew...oh, sorry, I already said that!

Anyway, I put it down to a "dry run"...first evening event for me with the signage. We actually had one fellow show up with a soccer ball and he kept his distance until around 8pm when we took the signs down.

So it was a very productive evening for ALL of us. You's guys got some good intelectual stuff done..while John and I attended to the easy stuff..!

All kidding aside, I'm glad to see the many contributions being made. Great idea Chris for the signs to be under your deck.

thanks everyone, (you too Jim,)

Bill
Bill
HEFA #5
MAAC #13708

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